Interview by Ellis May.
For more than twenty years Kraak and Smaak have moved freely through the spaces between club culture, songwriting and cinematic sound. What began as three friends releasing 12”s from Leiden, has grown into a global project defined by curiosity, craft and a refusal to stand still. With Velvet Seas they open a new chapter, shaped by late nights in their Dutch studio, unexpected inspiration in Los Angeles and the voices of collaborators from around the world. In this interview they look back at the early days, reflect on the lessons learned from two decades on the road, and share what continues to drive them forward.
What did the three of you first imagine Kraak and Smaak could become when you started making music together in Leiden, and how close is that to the reality twenty years later?
We started out just releasing a couple of 12”s through Jalapeño Records and hoped we would get noticed by the people in the cool breakbeat funk disco scene. Hopefully do some DJ sets abroad, as Mark and Wim already had quite a career in Holland. It got a bit bigger than that. But we still do those DJ sets across the globe.
You have travelled through so many genres over the years. Is there a sound or style you have not explored yet but feel drawn to now?
We haven’t really experimented with real live jazz and that could be something we would explore in the next couple of years. We do have a nice live recording room and know lots of good musicians, but it is just a matter of finding that right angle, something special, not just your average jazz.
Your catalogue includes both club driven tracks and deeply melodic songs. How do you decide whether an idea belongs on the dancefloor or in a more cinematic space?
Trying to avoid cliches here but the beauty of music is that when you have a good session, it leads you in a certain direction and not the other way around. Even when remixing other people, the most logical direction is that of the dancefloor, but even then sometimes it results in something completely different. Then when everything is kind of finished, we decide where it belongs I guess.
When you think about your earliest gigs in small European clubs, what do you remember most vividly about those nights and how did they shape your approach to performing?
When I think of those early days and nights I think of excited crowds and intimate performances. We still do small clubs and really try to connect with the crowd, mainly through our singers Berenice and Ivar. Also talking to fans after shows is a really rewarding part of the experience.
You have played some of the biggest festivals in the world. What is something about large scale shows that people might not realise until they experience them from the stage?
I think nobody who hasn’t played before a big crowd can feel the explosion of energy it creates inside. Pure adrenaline, pure euphoria, hard to compare with any other drug. Also after a show it takes hours to come down. There is just nothing like it.
Your studio work often blends analogue warmth with modern production. What piece of equipment or instrument has become essential to your creative process?
I would say that over the course of our career the Fender Rhodes piano has been the most important instrument.
Velvet Seas was written between Leiden and Los Angeles. What did the Los Angeles environment give you creatively that you could not have found at home?
Well it is mainly the huge amount of talent that is always travelling through or living in that area which makes it so exciting. You never know what to expect and where you end up.
The album features a wide range of vocalists. How do you guide a vocalist into the Kraak and Smaak universe while still letting them express their own identity?
Well it always starts out with looking for the right fit for the right demo, so that is a big filter of course. And then hopefully you get the chance to get together in a studio which is the most exciting part. And no, it doesn’t always work out of course.
When you hand a track to a remixer, what do you hope they will discover in the song that maybe even you did not notice?
Ideally you hope, and that is why you ask a particular artist, that he or she will give the track a whole new life of its own. Sometimes you discover that the remix actually works better than the original.
You have collaborated with artists from so many countries. How does working with musicians from different cultural backgrounds influence the way you think about rhythm and groove?
Well we always had quite an eclectic taste in music and so our grooves are not limited to just kick and snare, four to the floor. So I guess the selection of artists we want to work with is already very broad and of course you get influenced by them and vice versa. That is the beauty of music.
Your instrumental work on Scirocco showed a love for classic soundtrack music. If you were asked to score a film, what kind of story or atmosphere would excite you most?
That would be film noir or French detectives from the seventies for sure.
After two decades together, what keeps the creative relationship between the three of you fresh and forward moving?
We all three have quite some knowledge about music and we share the same taste, so that makes it easy to judge all the stuff that is made in the studio. Of course over the years everyone got to do their own things on the side, but we still have the studio and office we go to almost every day.
What is the most unexpected place or moment where you have heard your own music and how did it feel?
We loved seeing Parcels play the song we made together, Stumble, at the famous Red Rocks festival. And of course it is still odd to hear your music in the gym or supermarket or coffee places, but I must say that happens a lot.
When you start a new album cycle, what is the first question you ask yourselves before making any music?
Do I really want to make music, do I feel this urge. To be honest this is not really a question, but without the real need to make anything, just stay home and live your life.
What do you think defines a Kraak and Smaak song more than anything else?
The combination of groove and melancholy.
What has been the biggest lesson you have learned from twenty years of touring, producing and collaborating? That the fact that we can continue doing this after such a long time is really something else.
What do you hope listeners feel when they hear Velvet Seas for the first time? Euphoria.
Looking ahead, what kind of musical world do you want to build in the next chapter of your career? A more cinematic one, more electronic and intense.
Buy Velvet Seas Remixed at Juno
Kraak & Smaak
Boogie Angst
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